This week in Reading The Wheel of Time, we are finishing up The Path of Daggers. There’s an interesting juxtaposition with Min and Rand fleeing Cairhien while Egwene is finally about to arrive in Tar Valon, with Perrin trying diplomacy with Masema while Faile is captured by Shaido, who are breaking traditional Aiel laws in doing so. Also we have one of the saddest deaths so far in the series, which… is really saying something.
Having heard that Elayne is in Caemlyn and that she has had all the Dragon Banners taken down, Rand is in a foul mood. Min encourages him to go to Elayne, and points out that Rand wanted her to have the Lion throne. Rand agrees that he did, and now she doesn’t want anything to do with him, and that’s good because it means she is safe from his enemies. Min tells Fedwin, who is on guard duty, that the Dragon Reborn is sulking because he thinks a woman doesn’t want to see him.
Sorilea comes in, brushing past Fedwin, with five Aes Sedai in black da’tsang robes. They are some of those who kidnapped and tortured Rand and who were taken prisoner at Dumai’s Wells—Elza Penfell, Nesune Bihara, Sarene Nemdahl, Beldeine Nyram, and Erian Boroleos. Sorilea explains that all five have asked to be beaten the same way Rand was while their prisoner, and all have asked for the chance to try to make up for their shame. Sorilea says that their toh cannot ever be met, but that she has decided to leave the choice to Rand.
Min sees this as very out of character for a Wise one, especially Sorilea, and notes that Sorilea seems to be watching Rand carefully while pretending not to be.
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A Season of Monstrous Conceptions
Rand asks each Aes Sedai in turn one question: Why? Their answers vary. The Greens point out that Rand must fight in the Last Battle and the Battle Ajahs must follow him. Sarene, a White, says that it is only logical for her to follow Rand now. Nesune, a Brown, admits that she wants to study Rand.
Rand asks them if they would accept being confined to a box and they all answer that they would, though with varying degrees of enthusiasm. Min thinks that it is understandable that Rand would consider returning the treatment he got from them, but she knows he would regret it later and tries to think of what she could do to stop him from making this mistake. She is also seeing many auras around the women, including some that speak of glory and impressive deeds. Suddenly she sees one that encompasses all of them.
“They will serve you, each in her fashion, Rand,” she said hurriedly. “I saw it.” Sorilea would serve him? Suddenly Min wondered exactly what “in her fashion” meant. The words came with the knowing, but she did not always know what the words themselves meant. But they would serve; that much was plain.
Min sees Sorilea give her a small, approving nod. Rand’s fury seems to drain away, and he tells the five that they can swear to him as Kiruna and the others did. He tells Sorilea to put them with the rest of the “apprentices.”
On her way out, however, Sorilea remarks, seemingly casually, that Cadsuane is in the palace again, and that she seems to think that Rand is afraid of her. Rand almost immediately tells Min that he’s going to go see what Cadsuane wants, and asks Min to come with him. They have only gone a few steps down the hall when they are knocked down by a huge explosion from Rand’s apartments.
Rand immediately orders Fedwin not to channel unless he must, for fear of being detected, and to take Min down to the servants’ quarters. He tells Fedwin to kill anyone who gets in their way, and to guard Min with his life. As Rand runs off, Fedwin promises Min that he will take care of her.
Rand waits until Min is out of sight before he seizes saidin. For a moment he sees an image of Lews Therin in his mind’s eye, and tells the man in his head that he won’t let him win. Rand travels through the halls as quietly as he can, using a weave of fire and air to fold light around himself and render himself basically invisible, hiding from the Maidens and from Cadsuane leading a group of Aes Sedai.
But just as he lets the weave go, Ailil and Shalon, Harine’s Windfinder, peek out of a doorway and see him. Rand shields Shalon and ties it off with a knot that will unravel in a day or two, then leaves them tied up under Ailil’s bed. Then, coming around a corner, he sees Dashiva with Gedwyn and Rochaid, talking about whether or not Rand is dead. When Dashiva sees Rand he attacks with saidin. Rand channels a weave he doesn’t know, thinking maybe it’s one of Lews Therin’s, making a cocoon around himself that will keep out anything short of balefire. He bounces backwards before letting the weave go, then attacks Dashiva with red wires of fire and light.
He runs, not waiting to make himself a target, but when he eventually makes his way back to the spot he sees no sign of the three men. When he finally returns to Min, he learns that Fedwin now has “the mind of a small child,” and that Min had to keep him occupied and safe so that he didn’t use the One Power for anything. Rand has Fedwin shielded when Taim finds them. The way Rand and Taim look at one another makes Min think they are trying to decide whether or not to try to kill each other.
Taim explains that he only came by to report specific deserters—Gedwyn, Rochaid, Torval, and Kisman.
Taim offers to take Fedwin with him, but Rand tells him about Nynaeve and how she taught Rand what herbs were safe and which were not. He gives Fedwin some wine to drink, then holds Fedwin to his chest, urging him to sleep. Fedwin dies quietly, smiling, and Taim remarks that Rand is harder than Taim realized. He seems surprised when Rand tells him to add Dashiva to the list of deserters. Once Taim has left, Min tries to tell Rand that it is okay to cry for Fedwin, but Rand counters that there’s no time. They have to go.
Perrin lead a group towards Abila, where Masema is staying. It includes Neald and Grady, Balwer, and some of the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones. Elyas is also with him, but Perrin has left Faile in the camp. Perrin has followed Elyas’s advice on how he should interact with Faile, and has to admit that it has helped their relationship.
In the city, Balwer rides off on his own to gather information. The Aes Sedai keep their faces hidden as they arrive at the house Masema has commandeered for himself. Speaking carefully, Perrin announces that he has come with a message from the Dragon Reborn, and that the Prophet knows him. They are taken to a large room with a roaring fire, where Maseema is waiting.
His deep-set eyes burned with a black fire, and his scent… The only name Perrin could give that smell, steel-hard and blade-sharp and quivering with wild intensity, was madness. And Rand thought he could put a leash on this?
Masema begins to upbraid Perrin, then breaks off when the Aes Sedai drop their cloaks and reveal themselves. Masema is incensed, but Perrin calmly tells him that these Aes Sedai have sworn to obey the Lord Dragon, and asks if Masema obeys him, too—the Dragon sent Perrin to stop the killing and bring Masema to him.
Masema answers that he will obey his summons, but recoils at the idea of being touched with the One Power, calling it blasphemy for mortals to touch it.
“Perrin came close to gaping. “The Dragon Reborn channels, man!”
“The blessed Lord Dragon is not as other men, Aybara!” Masema snarled. “He is the Light made flesh! I will obey his summons, but I will not be touched by the filth these women do!”
Perrin considers having Masema knocked out and taken by force, but fears violence if anyone realizes what he and the Aes Sedai are doing. Sourly, he agrees that they will ride to Cairhien, rather than Travel, and wonders how they will manage to keep that long journey a secret.
Faile and Alliandre are hawking together, with Bain and Chiad nearby, and forty guardsmen looking after them. Maighdin serves as Faile’s maid. Faile is pleased with the recent change in Perrin. Now he ignores Berelain for the most part, and Faile no longer feels like she needs to curb her temper around him, or worry that he sees her as too weak to stand up to him.
Some of her people arrive to report that Masema has been meeting with the Seanchan. Faile can’t believe that Masema would ally with them, but Berelain points out that Masema hates Aes Sedai—and the Seanchan keep women who can channel as prisoners.
Faile decides she needs to ride and warn Perrin. Then they are attacked by seemingly hundreds of Aiel. Faile nearly escapes herself before her horse is shot out from under her. She fights, but is overwhelmed by a huge Aielman. She is stripped and brought to kneel beside Bain and Chiad, who have also been captured. The two Maidens protest, saying that Faile does not follow ji’e’toh and so cannot be made gai’shain, but fall silent when ordered.
Faile can’t fathom how the Shaido could be here. Maighdin, Alliandre, Arrela, and Lacile are also captured. As they are forced to march, Faile realizes that Berelain is the only one who escaped.
Egwene rides beside the column of initiates, considering how, in the month since she opened the novice book to all interested women, the number of novices has risen to almost a thousand. Egwene is mostly uncomfortable because two sisters brought in a group of girls from Emond’s Field, who are having a very hard time accepting that Egwene, the innkeeper’s daughter, is the Amyrlin Seat.
Siuan and Bryne seem to be getting along now, which surprises Egwene, and Sheriam has been growing more and more diligent in her role as Keeper. The Hall has continued to give Egwene trouble in every area they can manage—but continues to obey in all matters concerning Elaida. Romanda and Lelaine’s animosity towards each other continues to be useful to Egwene.
On Egwene’s order, thirteen linked Aes Sedai open a gateway a hundred paces across in the field before them. On the other side of the gateway snow is falling too thickly for Egwene to see far, but she still imagines she can see Tar Valon in the distance.
“It has begun, Mother,” Sheriam said, sounding almost surprised.
“It has begun,” Egwene agreed. And the Light willing, soon Elaida would fall.
Many rumors cross the land, rumors that Elaida has crushed the rebels, rumors that the rebels have put her head on a pike. Rumors that the Dragon Reborn has been broken and bound to the Aes Sedai, rumors that the Aes Sedai have been bound to him, and to the Asha’man. Rumors that the Seanchan have allied with the Dragon Reborn, rumors that he has cast them into the sea.
Across the nations the stories spread like spiderweb laid upon spiderweb, and men and women planned the future, believing they knew truth. They planned, and the Pattern absorbed their plans, weaving toward the future foretold.
I love that chapter 31, which has the traditional little afterword about how the rumors of these events spread across the world, is titled “Beginnings.” The opening of every book in the series always reminds us that there isn’t one big Beginning but that there are many beginnings, and I did feel as though a certain chapter was closing at the end of The Path of Daggers, and a new chapter will begin with Winter’s Heart.
I have also now written the word beginning too many times, and it has lost all meaning.
Both Rand and Egwene have now established themselves in their respective roles, insofar as they have been recognized by a good many people as being the Dragon Reborn and the Amyrlin Seat. They have both established a base of power, and both have faced the first tests of that power. However, when it comes to actually hanging on to the titles that they have acquired, and using their power to further ends, they are both still somewhat untested. Rand’s methods of uniting people under him has mostly been through conquering places and using people’s fear of him, and I think it’s pretty clear that this strategy will only take him so far. He needs willing allies, and to be someone who people want to follow. Someone who people trust. That won’t be an easy feat to accomplish, given the preconceived notions that people have about the Dragon and the knowledge of the taint on saidin, of course, but as impossible as it probably seems to him, I am certain that it is necessary. I suspect this will also be part of Cadsuane’s lesson.
And if Rand’s alluded-to plan to cleanse saidin works, that would certainly be a big step in earning the world’s trust. People won’t just lose their fear of male channelers overnight, but such a feat would show Rand in a really positive light, not only as someone who is doing Good, but as someone who can achieve things that even other channelers would think impossible. The thinking might be, if the Dragon can get rid of the taint, maybe he can also actually win the Last Battle.
Egwene is still untried as Amyrlin. She’s achieved what she has so far through political maneuvering, but she hasn’t been the Amyrlin long enough for us to see the results of her decisions. This attack on Tar Valon will be the first test of those decisions, and the results will shape the future of the Aes Sedai in a number of ways that I imagine no one, not Egwene or Siuan or anybody, has yet anticipated. Hopefully, Egwene’s Aes Sedai will be able to reunify the Tower under their very new, very young Amyrlin, but I imagine there will be complications in that, even if their army is able to defeat Elaida’s.
And of course, the Black Ajah is still in the Tower, and Egwene still has “Halima” and Delana with her—probably some other Black Ajah members as well. (Sheriam? Maybe?)
Perrin is also at a turning point, I think. Although he’s still uncomfortable with the idea of being a lord, he’s starting to accept it as an unfortunate necessity. He’s coming to some kind of equilibrium with Faile, with his wolfbrother nature, and with his identity as someone who doesn’t like violence, but sometimes must participate in it. But at the same time, all these relative moments of balance are about to be challenged, with Faile’s kidnapping, with the return of Elyas, and with the question of what to do about Masema. I have a feeling that in the next book, Perrin is going to be forced to face his demons in a whole new way, and might come to some interesting and surprising realizations.
I think Rand will have a similar journey, and hopefully he and Cadsuane will come to some kind of understanding, some kind of truce, that Rand can live with and that can help take him and the Asha’man to a better place. If the taint can be cleansed and Rand’s personal fear of vulnerability be mitigated, both he and his Asha’man are going to look very different than they do now.
Speaking of Asha’man, Taim showing up to report that Gedwyn and Rochaid are deserters right after they tried to kill Rand seems incredibly suspicious to me. It’s like reporting your car stolen right after you committed a crime in it—the timing is just too on the nose. Not to mention the question of how Taim would even know that the two have gone AWOL—if they were with Rand in Cairhien, Taim would have no way of knowing that they weren’t where they were supposed to be until someone reported it to him, and I don’t think there has been enough time between the explosion and when Taim shows up for any of the other Asha’man to know for sure that everyone isn’t accounted for.
At this point I feel like Taim just about has to be a Darkfriend. But there’s always still a chance that he’s Rand’s enemy but not technically sworn to the Dark. Taim’s open hatred for Rand has been clear since day one, and he’s obviously tried to undermine Rand wherever he could, making the Black Tower his own and giving many of the other Asha’man the same disdain for Rand that he so clearly carries. It’s even possible that Taim has convinced himself that Rand isn’t really the Dragon, or that, Dragon or no, Taim himself could act in Rand’s stead during the Last Battle. Or something along those lines. He is a channeler of saidin, after all, which means that the taint is working upon his mind—some kind of extreme delusion of grandeur like this would make sense in that context.
The thing that is throwing me is how little Rand seems to suspect Taim. Most of my questions about Taim come from a narrative perspective. Could he be a red herring to distract us from some other Darkfriend in Rand’s periphery? Is it so obvious it’s too obvious? How much of Rand’s hatred of the man comes from Lews Therin? Etc. But if I were Rand, I feel like I’d be pretty certain Taim is a Darkfriend, especially after this. All four of these “deserters” seemed very loyal to Taim, and, again, the timing is so suspicious. As Taim’s timing always is. As is his obvious hatred of Rand, and the hatred he is clearly instilling in other Asha’man. Rand hates Taim, as well—though he may be putting that down to Lews Therin’s influence?
Taim being surprised that Dashiva is also among those who tried to kill Rand is interesting, but doesn’t really point one way or another. If Dashiva is Osan’gar, he might not choose to reveal his true identity to regular Darkfriends—even Asan’gar is keeping that a secret, using other methods to secure Delana’s cooperation and service. If Taim is a Darkfriend and ordered his men to kill Rand, it makes sense if he didn’t think Dashiva would be involved. On the other hand, if Dashiva was the one who orchestrated the attack, not Taim, then Taim’s surprise might just be because he had heard about the others but not Dashiva.
Only, again, how would he have heard about them? That’s the question that feels most important to me, and I also think that it makes narrative sense for Taim, Rand’s second, to be a Darkfriend. Jealousy of Lews Therin drove so many of his closest friends to swear to the Dark, after all. And the more I turn it over in my head, the more I think that Taim almost has to have been involved in orchestrating this attack on Rand, and that he’s either a Darkfriend or that his taint madness has taken a Padan Fain route and focused in specifically on Rand as an enemy that must be destroyed.
Meanwhile, Perrin is dealing with a very different kind of madman. I can’t help wondering if there’s more to Masema’s actions than we understand, possibly some kind of manipulation by the Forsaken. There isn’t really anything specific to indicate this, but given the Dark One’s directive to sow chaos in the land and how the Forsaken seem to have a hand in destabilizing every other major power in the story, it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t at least be monitoring what’s going on with the man, and possibly encouraging his more unhinged and violent tendencies. His hatred of Aes Sedai is pretty strong given that he doesn’t have any specific reason for it—he’s Shienaran, so would have been raised with respect for Aes Sedai, and hasn’t had any bad encounters with them as far as we’ve seen. Since he saw Rand fighting Ishamael in the sky over Falme, you can see how he got the idea that the Dragon Reborn is something more than a human being. But the idea that Rand is “the Light made flesh” comes a little too close to the idea that some of the Forsaken have that they have become something more than human.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it feels like there’s probably something about Masema that we haven’t encountered yet. Maybe it has to do with these talks with the Seanchan. Berelain’s point that Masema might like the Seanchan because of their ability to enslave Aes Sedai makes sense, but I can’t really think what the Seanchan would want from him. He and his people are exactly what the Seanchan despise in a culture, and Masema doesn’t have enough power to be a real threat to the Seanchan, as far as I can tell. However, if he is being manipulated or used by the Dark, there might be a reason for Suroth, specifically, to be in contact with him.
And speaking of manipulation, I was curious if any of the da’tsang Aes Sedai who came to swear to Rand were under Verin’s pseudo-compulsion trick… and then I went back and checked the Prologue and sure enough, Beldeine was one of the women she worked with while in the Aiel camps. This is, no doubt, why each of these women had their own very different reasons for deciding to swear to Rand—Verin’s more convoluted, weaker version of compulsion requires the subject to find their own reasons to obey.
That might also explain Min’s viewing that each woman would serve Rand “in her fashion.” They have sworn to obey him so unless one of them is Black Ajah (which would raise some different questions about the power of Verin’s weave) they will have to stick to those oaths. But if their motivations to serve aren’t to actually help Rand, that might have some interesting results.
I found Rand’s upset over Elayne both amusing and heartbreaking. Amusing because, as Min points out, Rand is basically sulking because he thinks the woman he likes doesn’t like him, like a boy in a teen movie. There’s definitely some classic Robert Jordan-style “men and women communicate so differently they can’t understand each other” here, especially with the reference to the two different letters Elayne wrote to Rand, way back… whenever it was. I had forgotten all about them, but I think that was also the last time they saw each other in person. In my mind Rand took those letters far too seriously, and it’s interesting that he never guesses that Elayne might be nervous about the same thing that Rand is nervous about—giving someone else too much power over her heart.
We learn in chapter 29 that Perrin and Faile are communicating better because Elyas has been giving Perrin advice on handling Saldaean women. It’s nice to see that they’ve been able to bridge that gap between them—although again, I feel like Faile could have just been straight with her husband about the kind of behavior she expects from him. I did have a little more empathy for Faile when the narrative acknowledged that she was thinking about the fact that Perrin isn’t Saldaean, and that she was aware that her hurt and upset was emotional, not strictly logical.
I’m not really one for the old-school heteronormativity that’s written into the interactions between men and women in this story, regardless of their different cultural trappings, but I do appreciate how the Saldaean culture makes the power play between the genders overt, rather than covert. There’s an honesty there I can appreciate, though I suppose that it’s also part of the reason I’ve been so irked with Faile when she wouldn’t just spell out the dynamic for Perrin.
Rand, meanwhile, can’t seem to figure out why Elayne might want (and need) to make her claim to the Lion Throne without his help, or that her personal care for him might not be in play when she is working the political side of her life. On the one hand, that feels a little silly of him, and that’s where we get the sulky side that Min is so exasperated (and a little bit amused) by. But on the other hand, I think that this reaction speaks to how little Rand is able to separate the different aspects of his identities. He doesn’t really think of himself as a person anymore, doesn’t think of Rand al’Thor as being a man outside of the legendary, prophesied Dragon Reborn. For him, there is no difference between Elayne tearing down the Dragon Banners and Elayne telling him to his face that she doesn’t love him. I think this part of his and Min’s exchange really covers exactly how he’s thinking.
“Haven’t you twisted yourself into knots to make sure she got the throne of Andor? Which is hers by right, might I add. Didn’t you say you wanted her to have Andor whole, not ripped apart like Cairhien or Tear?”
“I did!” he roared. “And now it’s hers, and she wants me out of it! Good enough, I say!”
Even when Min points out that everything has worked out politically just as Rand wanted, and reassures him several times that she knows Elayne loves him and wants to see him, Rand doesn’t so much reject her words as seem unable to hear them.
Of course, Rand’s deep-seated self loathing is also a factor here; he thinks of himself as a monster whose soul is damned, and he anticipates rejection at every turn. No doubt part of the reason he is so worked up is that he really does believe that Elayne is safer if she doesn’t want to be with him, but also he still wants her to be with him. No doubt he feels terribly ashamed over that. We also know that he feels shame over the fact that he’s kind of in love with three different women, which further complicates his ability to engage sensibly with his own emotions.
I really, really appreciated Lews Therin’s comment (and there’s a sentence I didn’t anticipate writing) that “Eagles and women can only be kept safe in cages.” Rand and Perrin have both really struggled with their own fear of losing the women they love, which is of course understandable, but it does come with a desire to curtail their lovers’ freedom. Perrin has had to accept that Faile won’t always stay behind, that she is the kind of person who rides into danger and who will always insist on being included in important tasks and journeys (an acceptance that will no doubt be hard to hang onto now that she’s been captured). Rand has tried to take care of all of Elayne’s obstacles to obtaining the Lion Throne, to “gift” it to her, and is angry and hurt that she is rejecting his help, even after Min points out that Elayne has her own right to the throne, outside of Rand’s designs for it.
And yet he has also tried to run from all the women he loves, determined that he is too dangerous to allow any of them close to him, and has really struggled with their insistence that they get to make their own choices. This is the same problem he is having with the Maidens—Rand knows that he has promised to take them into battle, knows that they experience pain and shame when he doesn’t keep that promise. He knows that for the Maidens dying is considered part of life, that they have chosen the life of warriors and that they view dying as something to be embraced, when necessary, not feared or avoided. And yet still he tries to control something that is not his right to control. His pain is understandable (and amped to a fever pitch by Lews Therin’s pain regarding Ilyena), but rather than confront that pain, he chooses to let it fester, to wallow in it, and the Maidens continue to feel shamed by his actions. Not only that, his refusal to accept their agency, to accept Elayne’s agency, is leading to him losing the little emotional support he has left. Only Min remains, now, and she has been very careful in the ways she challenges him, backing down more often than not. I’m not sure what would happen if she were to be more forceful.
I suppose I should be a little more fair to Faile here, now that I think about it. Perrin’s desire not to yell at her, to treat her softly and with kindness is not about thinking her fragile, as Saldaean culture believes—that’s just the kind of person Perrin is. He doesn’t like yelling or being angry, even outside of the cultural context of how a Two Rivers woman would expect to be treated. But from a Saldaean point of view, part of a man arguing forcibly with, and even shouting at, his wife is to prove that he doesn’t believe he has to protect her from himself. Proving that he believes her strong enough to stand up to him, and to have a different opinion than him, and thus, to have her own overt agency in their relationship. I may quarrel with how this expression is made, but I have to respect Faile’s desire for it.
I haven’t touched on Fedwin’s death at all this week, but that’s because I’ve realized I had so much to say about it that it deserved its own essay. That will be next week’s post. In the meantime I’m left musing about the future, about how Mat is doing and if Rand’s defeat of the Seanchan is affecting him, and how long it will take Nynaeve to get Lan’s bond transferred to her. A while, maybe, since they’re in Caemlyn and Myrelle is with Egwene, about to take on the siege of Tar Valon.
That’s going to really be something, I think.
Sylas K Barrett is still quite ill, and would like a visit from the Yellow Ajah, please. Also, fantasy and historical books always make hawking sound so fun.
I’ve never properly reacted to Fedwin’s death. The attack on the palace coming so far into any reread means I’ve been pretty word drunk. I’m glad to see it’s going to get a whole essay next week.
“I found Rand’s upset over Egwene both amusing and heartbreaking.”
Mods, in context I think “Egwene” should be “Elayne”.
Mods, that should be Elayne.
I remember that I found Fedwin’s death to be very poignant and a good example of why male channelers were so very dangerous in the 3rd Age. His mind completely snaps with no warning.
I never understood how the Black Tower could have possibly tracked down any deserters who were able to Travel. They could be anywhere! I expected this to become a problem, honestly
Masema… I don’t remember, was he already hostile to AS and female channeling when Nyn encountered him in Ghaeladan? Does he blame Moiraine for Rand running off and leaving him back in TDR?
@@.-@, I think that Masema’s hatred of the Aes Sedai is the work of Graendal. I believe she is the one who has been manipulating him (and who appeared to him as the Dragon Reborn before the Battle of Malden, teliing him to kill Perrin). My guess is that she has been working on him for quite a while.
“The thing that is throwing me is how little Rand seems to suspect Taim”. Rand always suspected Taim, always. When Perrin was near and could smell Rand emotions, he was weirded out by this too, but attributed it to Rand’s madness or emotional instability. Rand simply ignored his instincts and suspicions for Taim because 1) he badly needed Taim to create a force of Asha’man and train them adequately and quickly and 2) He is fighting with “Lews Therin” for control, and he thinks that Lews Therin voice is just mad when it screams to “kill him now” whenever Taim appears. If one were to re-read WOT books carefully, notice that “Lews Therin” only rants to kill those who swore to the Dark or possible Forsaken male channelers, never regular Light-side Asha’man. Once Rand feels clarity he realizes it too. (Plus originally Taim was supposed to be disguise for Demandred and “Lews Therin” recognized him, but then RJ switched it up since fans guessed the reveal).
@2, 3: Thanks! The post has been updated–if anyone is still seeing “Egwene” instead of “Elayne,” try refreshing the page…
“And if Rand’s alluded-to plan to cleanse saidin works, that would certainly be a big step in earning the world’s trust. People won’t just lose their fear of male channelers overnight, but such a feat would show Rand in a really positive light, not only as someone who is doing Good, but as someone who can achieve things that even other channelers would think impossible.”
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Masha @6:
But shouldn’t it have been suspicious that Taim was able to train large numbers of malechannelers so quickly and well? When he shouldn’t have had any relevant experience? Frankly, once RJ abandoned Taimandred it kinda stopped making sense that he could do it. Also a Saldean who disdains swords? Yes, I know that the retcon was that Demandred had him freed and very quickly taught him a few things, but it never felt convincing or well executed to me.
And of course, Taim’s favorites, whom he tried very hard to place in Rand’s entourage after Dumai’s Wells, making an assassination attempt? It should have been very obvious. I wonder why Min didn’t cotton on – she was present when Taim tried to foist these guys on Rand.
Brent @5:
I remember a FS screwing with Masema – but he became a crazy zealot before that. Which is why I was wondering how early his hatred for AS manifested in the books. Though of course Moggy was around when Nyn met him in Ghaeladan too…
Narrative: ‘The Prophet disapproved of wealth gained by trade as much as he did carousing or what his followers called lewd behaviour. He disapproved of a great many things.’
Neuxue: “Other Things The Prophet Disapproves Of: fun, nice things, happiness, leaving people’s ears on their heads where they fucking belong, and getting shit together to fight the Last Battle.”
https://neuxue.tumblr.com/post/132246929943/wheel-of-time-liveblogging-the-path-of-daggers-ch
I still don’t understand why we have to be “fair” to Faile. At every point in anyone’s re-read, and even within the narrative, we’re supposed to cut her some slack because he customs are so different than Perrin’s, and thus some degree of misunderstanding is excusable.
But that doesn’t hold any water. Faile refuses, utterly refuses, to be candid with Perrin about her expectations of him, and more to the point, is often unwilling to meet him halfway even when she knows what he wants/needs. That is the inexcusable difference between the two – Perrin isn’t treating Faile like a weakling, he’s treating her in the way he’s most comfortable with and which his culture encourages, something she is 100% aware of, because she’s been immersed in Two Rivers culture for a long, long time – not to mention, Perrin is constantly explaining his actions and their rationale. She almost never reciprocates, and just gets angry when he cannot read her mind. If she was honest with him for one single minute, they’d have a happier relationship. As in fact they do… when she comes back from captivity and she starts being honest!
And yeah, Rand is being an idiot here, but lets also remember that he’s like 22 years old and not particularly experienced with women and is going through the most intense pressure cooker imaginable, all made 100x worse by knowing he’s fated to die and probably kill all the people he loves, and also might be going insane at the moment. We have no evidence that he has any indication of the political intricacies of Andoran Successions – he doesn’t know that Elayne can’t accept the Throne as a gift, and more to the point, it’s debatable whether he ever considered himself the conqueror of Andor anyway! His entire “invasion” was nothing more than a targeted strike at Rahvin in a moment of anger, not an attempt to wrest control of Andor, and he was clear from Day 1 that he still considered Elayne the lawful successor to Morgase – why shouldn’t he feel a little miffed that she’s tearing down his banners left and right, after he avenged her mother and freed her nation from the clutches of a particularly vile Forsaken? I can barely remember what it was like to like someone as a teenager or close to it, and you’re always second guessing everything, even when you hear what you want and get what you want. Rand is no different, except for the fact that in his eyes, he’s gone through an absolute ton of trouble to liberate Andor and hold it together without taking it over, specifically because of his feelings for Elayne, and she’s seemingly throwing that in his face.
@11 – You know Faile is, like, 20 as well, right?
Why all this leeway for Rand’s immaturity because of his age, but none for Faile?
“I have a feeling that in the next book, Perrin is going to be forced to face his demons in a whole new way, and might come to some interesting and surprising realizations.” — Sylas
On the contrary, Perrin will have a one-track mind for the next three books.
@13 Gotta put Perrin’s character development on ice because otherwise he’d finish his character arc too soon.
Wonder how Sylas will react to the PLOD?
And Mat’s rape?
Yeah I always have to remind myself how young they all are. Not only that though, they’ve all been separated from their traditional support structures. No parents, no older siblings, or friends. They have no one at all to ask for advice. If memory serves Faile does actually get a bit better when she gets some advice from her parents doesn’t she? Because these characters have been taken out of their own cultural context, and in cases of Rand and Perin been placed in such high positions of leadership, it’s hard to imagine where they could be getting advice on how to deal with these “petty/personal” issues. That’s why Elyas showing up is so great for Perrin. I think one of the common themes in series, as a part of the importance of accurate communication, is that’s it is important to actually have good human support networks. Isolation is the cause of so many of their troubles.
As for Taim, did he not say when he first met rand that he had trained a few men? I also think that when it comes to the Asha’men, they aren’t particularly well trained. They really don’t seem to have a wide variety of skills. The largely seem to fight in a pretty brute force and simple way. Their effectiveness comes in their coordination rather their skill does it not? I seem to recall many times where it is remarked that for all of their numbers the black tower is still at risk from the Aes Sedai due to their knowledge experience, and skill. Is that not the case. I don’t recall many Asha’men doing much that is supper complicated or impressive, and a few of the things that we do see, like Flinn’s healing, are kind of being learned on the fly. Taim seems to basically just drill the Asha’men essentially constantly and occasionally to the death in pursuit of them mastering what limited abilities they do have.
I actually didn’t know that Taim was originally supposed to be demandred. I never really followed statements about what was going on behind the scenes, and the only thing I ever heard (I guess after the retcon) was that he was someone we had not seen yet. I don’t know. For me his abilities didn’t seem much of a problem because he never really seemed that competent until the end. Does the narrative actually show him being much more skilled than Loghain? I thought they were relatively equal.
@9 Remember that Rand picked “Dashiva” against Taim’s objections. And it would appear to Rand here that Dashiva was the leader of the attempt on his life.
@@@@@ 12 – because Faile and Perrin are married and in a relationship in which they’re in contact with each other on a daily basis. Rand hasn’t seen Elayne in months, and gets all his news and information from and about her second hand, through the filter of people who don’t always have their best interest as a couple as a priority. Also, of course, Faile doesn’t have “incipient madness” and “doomed to kill every person [she] loves” on her bingo card, which are kind of a big deal, ya know? Faile is a badass character in a lot of ways, but she’s not Warrior Jesus either. Rand has all the pressure of forging a new compact to fight the Shadow on his plate, and part of his irritation or frustration is that Elayne seems to be forgetting the whole “Armageddon is literally weeks away” part of things in favor of “I can’t be seen to be ‘accepting’ the throne from a man.” In other words, she’s playing politics with the end of the world, much as we’re supposed to despise the Cairhienin and Tairen lords and ladies for doing. She’s a protagonist, so we’re encouraged to view this more kindly, but effectively it is no different – Elayne is concerned about her position post-Tarmon Gaidon, and is actively futzing with Rand’s plans (without telling him, no less) in pursuit of a purely selfish goal.
Faile, by contrast, has none of those extraneous conditions. In fact, the one time the politics in which she is involved in (her relationship to Tenobia/Bashere) got brought up in the context of her relationship with Perrin, it was her honesty with him over it that brought them closer together!
AGrey @12:
I thought that Faile is the same age as Elayne? Who was about 16 when first introduced? And yea, it is just a few years difference between the girls and the boys, but they are very important years for personality development and maturity. Which Egwene’s critics also tend to ignore. Still not a fan of Faile – and not a fan of Two Rivers, which was independent and had a functional self-government, joyously becoming a feudal fief, but we have to take it into account. These girls are competent in their areas of expertise, wunderkinder even, but their relationship skills are more in line with their ages.
Noblehunter @14:
Personally, I feel that Mat’s relationship with Tuon, the Seanchan, Moiraine’s return and the Black Tower badly needed more development and should have been given most of the page space allotted to the PLOD and Andoran succession. I wasn’t satisfied with the rushed resolution to these plot-lines that Sanderson was forced to implement because so much time had been spent treading water during the previous books. I am, of course, grateful that the series was finished.
Nigel Redpath @16:
Yes, Taim said that he had trained men in the past and that’s how he invented the test for potential, but when his tenure as a False Dragon was spoken about, nobody ever brought up him having had other male channelers as followers. And it should have been mentioned, because it would have been quite unusual. So, very suspicious. That was one of the hints that he maybe wasn’t who he claimed to be – there were a few others, like Bashere not recognizing him, his disdain for swordsmanship – very atypical for a Saldean who as a man would have only sparked after reaching adulthood, his using a phrase “so-called Aiel”, which makes sense for an AoLer, but not a 3rd Ager, the DO praising Demandred at the end of LoC IIRC, even though we didn’t see him do anything, Taim’s and Demandred’s appearance being described as similar, etc. So, many readers guessed his secret identity and we now know from his papers that RJ did indeed purposefully set it up, but changed his mind prior to WH.
The Asha’man can Travel and Heal (general healing, not Damer’s special weaves), both of which are supposed to be intricate weaves. Healing in particular is supposed to be easy to botch, which is why AS only taught it to advanced Accepted and even they were only allowed to do it under supervision.
Andrewrm @18:
You seem to have missed that according to the text _Andorans_ were very much worried about post-TG and wouldn’t have followed the Dragon’s puppet, which was liable to fall as soon as he was out of the picture. Elayne just knew her people. And of course it was her duty, rather than selfish, to worry about the long-term as well as the short-term. Though personally I could have done without the Andoran succession – and IMHO it could have been short-circuited in a number of ways
@19 But then what do you do with Perrin in the mean time? Leave him off the page from Winter’s Heart to Knife of Dreams? I don’t know if that particular PLOD is the best solution to Perrin being so far ahead in his character development but RJ had to try something.
That’s one of the reasons why I’m glad Sanderson finished the series. I don’t know anyone else who has the experience of finishing a truly epic series while they’re still writing one.
Egwene thinks talking with Aes Sedai about anything besides the war against Elaida is “like pulling duck’s teeth.” Nice idiom for doing the impossible.
For the record, The Wheel of Time Companion lists Faile’s birth year as 981. This point in the story takes place in late 999 or early 1000, so she’s about 18.
@22 – At this point in the story it’s after the Feast of Lights (aka New Year’s Eve & Day which happens on the winter solstice), which took place during LoC while Rand was kidnapped. So it’s now early in the year 1000 NE (New Era), Jumara 22 to be specific (i.e. Feb 9) is the date of the attack on the Sun Palace.
In 1000, Faile is 18, turning 19 at some point.
Egwene and Elayne were also born in 981, so they are also 18, turning 19.
Aviendha was born in 980, so she’s 19, turning 20.
Rand was born on Danu 2 (Nov 25), in 978 NE. Mat and Perrin were born within 2 weeks of that date. So all three are 21 at this point.
Min is in her early-to-mid 20s but I don’t believe we know exactly.
Nynaeve was born in 973 NE, so she’s 26 or 27 now, but looks younger due to slowing.
For all he gets amazingly right amazingly early, it’s always a little fun to see a swing and a miss from Sylas. And boy did we get some this time.
Rand cleansing the taint is sure to earn him respect. Perrin is definitely going to grow as a person as he rescues Faile next book. Egwene’s army and Elida’s are going to have a battle as, next book, the two clash.
Though to be fair, *any* prediction of plot movement in the next couple books (especially book 10, and aside from the Cleansing) is going to be wrong because there’s just barely any. Though that said, I do wonder if Sylas will even notice. Maybe if there’s a post-book retrospective after the next two books. If not… despite what long time readers will say about the slog, it’s full of world building and character building. Just not much plot building.
I distinctly remember finishing book 10 when it came out, going “wait, that’s all? nothing happened!” But when you can just move directly on to book 11 it isn’t so bad.
@19 Thanks so much for the details. I had forgotten some of them. In my memory Bashere was angry about Rand’s alliance with Taim, so I guess him not recognising him slipped my mind. I mainly just put his disdain for the sword down to him being a channeler and in his own self-agrandising view more than mere mortal, and this disdaining mortal things. I don’t really recall who it was with precision but was there not a passage wherein it was discussed how Lew’s Theron and, I thought Demandred, maybe Ishmael? Rediscovered the lost art of swords during the war of power. I am not recalling that clearly. I didn’t realise that the forsaken had any disdain for mortal weapons. Out of curiosity though did the Asha’men not learn travelling from Rand? And is their style of healing not regarded as particularly brutal and crude? Was that supposed to be the sadistic side of Demandred in only teaching such a method. Or is it just narratively that like rand he doesn’t have have much skill in that area?
@23 thanks for the precise dates and ages. It’s always so useful, and the books don’t.. deliberately perhaps?… Do a good job of keeping the reader aware of how much time has been passing.
The “Taimandred” theory has a lot of holes. For everyone that says that RJ changed his mind because people figured out the twist, there is someone else who claims that there is no evidence of that, and that it was the plan all along. It speaks of petulance.
As for Faile, I never liked her as a character. Her lack of communication, overall attitude, it reeks of an entitlement that personally tweaked me out. Combine that with just how long the PLOD plodded along, and I just renamed the character “Failure.”
JasonD @26:
But we now know for certain that RJ initially intended for Taim to be Dem and also for him to be the murderer of Asmodean – which would have indeed been more logical than Graendal doing it because they just randomly ran into each other. It is in his papers. This was the state of things when he was writing LoC, when he changed his mind and why we can only speculate.
Nigel Redpath @25:
IIRC some of the male Forsaken did express their disdain for swords – Sammael, I am pretty sure, and maybe Rahvin? IIRC Asmodean was also quite disparaging. Be’lal was the one who had been LTT’s fencing buddy. And in AMoL Demandred was suddenly a blademaster, just so that 3 Third-Age warriors could have a crack at him. Through honestly, it never made sense to me when male FS, with the exception of Bel’al, who actually had a reason, used melee weapons, either real or made from OP, to fight Rand or others. They are powerful AoL channelers, why would they? Clearly just so that their opponents would have had a chance instead of being hopelessly outclassed – looking back Ishy’s 3 fights vs Rand where he waved around a staff(!) are pretty silly.
The point I made with Travelling and Healing is that they are both intricate weaves, so Asha’man are quite adept in their weavings, not just brute-forcing it. Male Healing just feels somewhat different from the female one, but it appears to be equally effective.
I always preferred the theory that Patrick Nielsen Hayden was the one who killed Asmodean.
The whole point of Demandred’s character is that he was always the second best at everything, right behind LTT. To say that his extreme skill with the sword came out of nowhere doesn’t fit IMO, as that should be yet another area where he was almost-but-not-quite the best, yet another stone on the pile of resentment that caused him to turn to the shadow.
@@@@@ 19 Isilel –
Right, but part of that whole plotline (when Elayne is advancing towards Caemlyn and feeling out all the locals about what they think, rumors they’ve heard, etc) is that the common people, as a whole, believe everything. They blame Rand for bad harvests years before he left the Two Rivers, they don’t think Elayne should be queen at all, they think she should but not if it’s given to her – Elayne naturally focuses on those rumors which support he preconceived notions of how this all should shake out. There is an extremely strong argument to be made that not only is Elayne not the legal Daughter Heir, but that her mother’s actions, intentional or not, are a further valid reason to depose House Trakand. But you never hear her seriously think for a second that she shouldn’t present her claim, despite hearing many Andorans say “good riddance” to the Trakands.
In any case, the point is that there is no “consensus”. Dyelin clearly believes that only someone strong enough to claim the Throne should hold it, and that it isn’t a gift to be given. But many other High Seats clearly disagree, since they’re willing to lick Rand’s boots in order to gain the Throne. So Rand isn’t wrong to view this as Elayne kind of spitting in his face – she’s trying to have this both ways. She refuses to acknowledge that Rand spent considerable time, energy, and political capital holding Andor together for her while she jaunted off doing whatever the hell she wanted because she was bored in Salidar, all while also demonizing him for being an “invader”. Despite, you know… the whole “liberating Andor from one of the most powerful and evil men to have ever lived.”
I got way behind in my reading but the good news is that I can binge this column. Path of Daggers was the last book I read when I first read the series – it was all that was out. So for a long time it was one of my least favorites because it felt like nothing happened. (Although of course future books to come out would test this theory for sure!). But I’ve often found on re-reads things fit together better and you don’t begrudge some of the time spent in various places (to a degree! PLOD and the succession could definitely stand to be trimmed down…)
I really wonder how Sylas is going to take Faile and Berelain during the PLOD. My goodness did all that cement my hatred of Berelain. There’s definitely some uncomfortable stuff with Faile and the Aiel that captures her if I recall…it’s been awhile since I read it but it was a bit unpleasant for me…one of those things where I’m not sure if I should ‘blame’ the narrative or not, or just allow that it reflects what can be an unpleasant reality.
In a way I’m kind of looking forward to Sylas’s take on some of the slow moving stuff as he tends to really zero in on character motivations and what not.